I love this time of year. Sure, the weather is (generally) pleasant, I am on vacation, and the Tour de France is on VS twenty four hours a day. But these are not the specific reasons why I look forward to three weeks in July.
No.
It’s time for Triathletes Saying Stupid Things About Cycling on the Internet.
If you’re stuck in a cube all day or lucky enough to be home on vacation with nothing better to do, I strongly urge you to go over to the forums on Slowtwitch.com or Beginnertriathlete.com and start reading their TdF threads. Warning – this shit is more addictive than crack, meth, and oxycontin combined, so take it in small doses or your friends/family/coworkers are likely to find you with a sharp stick stuck through your eye, lying in a pool of your own blood, a result of self inflicted wounds that were an attempt to stop the insanity well before le Tour ever reaches the Champs-Élysées.
It’s that bad.
Triathletes like to think that because they participate in a sport that involves bicycles, they are “cyclists” much in the same way that Tour riders are cyclists. Let me make something clear – triathlon and cycling are both sports that involve the use of bicycles and the wearing of lycra. The similarities stop there.
What you are about to read is entirely non-fiction. It is not the work of this author. This can all be found on the Slowtwitch Forums:
I’ve been watching prior year TdF coverage and have a couple questions…Feel free to add your own stupid questions.
1. Did they recently require helmets?
2. Why no female cyclists?In Reply To
1. Did they recently require helmets?
Yes, maybe 5 years ago or so.2. Why no female cyclists?
They wouldn’t be remotely competitive in a men’s stage race.In Reply To
<They wouldn’t be remotely competitive in a men’s stage race.>
Okay, but in this day age, one would think all the feminists would have lobbied for their own female TdF???
In Reply To
<Okay, but in this day age, one would think all the feminists would have lobbied for their own female TdF???>They do have their own Tour de France.
Wait, it gets better. The resident KIA of the forum (KIA=KnowItAll, and every forum has one) replied with this missive:
All correct answers but some background….
The helmet debacle has been an ongoing one. The journalists do not want the helmets arguing you cannot see the “drama” and the expression on the rider’s faces. The riders are mixed… if they can get a good helmet sponsor and the attendant dollars then there is another revenue stream. A young rider named Fabio Casartelli died in a terrible crash on a mountain descent some years ago and that brought the helmet matter to the fore.
As for women in Le Tour, well, bike racing is a throw-back to the days when men were sportsmen and women were adoring fans. It’s antiquated, chauvenistic and borderline offensive sometimes but it is convention. The fetching podium girls- two of them, usually a blonde and brunette, festoon the winner of each stage with his awards and shower him with kisses. While sexist, it is an innocent convention that harkens to an earlier day before Title 9.
There are several problems with the above statement. Can you find them?
A young rider named Fabio Casartelli died in a terrible crash on a mountain descent some years ago and that brought the helmet matter to the fore
Ah, Guess again boys. That would have been Andrei Kivilev, 2003, Paris-Nice. Flat stage finish.
While sexist, it is an innocent convention that harkens to an earlier day before Title 9.
Nice try. Title IX is a piece of legislation that was passed in 1972. In the United States. Which means it has no bearing on what the UCI chooses to do with women’s cycling. Also, the presence of podium girls at awards ceremonies in men’s sports has no bearing on women’s participation in sports.
Ok now, moving on (this content, by the way, is all from the same thread that was started today, July 5).
Why do the use safety pins to attach their numbers?I would think with their budget they would be able to purchase custom jerseys with the number printed on it. Kind of like every professional sport in the world. This is just a pet peeve. Why do they put the jersey on backwards at the awards presentation?
I told you, I can’t make this stuff up.
July 5th, 2009 | 
I’m dying laughing over here…and at the same time, rather appalled.
If you think of it – the number question (oh by the way – many times their numbers are GLUED ….) – triathlon uses safety pins too…or belts or whatever….check out all those pictures from Kona or regional series events.
GAHH at least if you’re going to ask a ridiculous question or complain about something absurd then make sure it’s a legit difference between triathlon and road cycling.
Bahhh.
I’m going to go out and ride my road bike now.
Maybe I’ll pin on an old race number for shits….
PS. Keep this coming…I’m not sure if I’m brave enough to read the forums.
Are you suggesting that Fabio Casartelli’s death did nothing to raise the issue regarding the use of helmets? or was your point to suggest that Andrei Kivilev’s death brought the issue of helmets to the fore front only to show off your knowledge of the sport and try to discredit some “inferior” triathlete who will never become a good cylist in your mind? Being a triathlete myself, my goal is to become a good triathlete which the last time I checked required skill in 3 different areas. Funny, I never find “runners” and “swimmers” who are threaten by triatletes just “cyclist” I enjoy reading your blog but leave the bullying tactics to the 6th graders.
Robert,
In response to your statements – Casartelli’s death did not influence the implementation of a mandatory helmet rule. Casartelli died in 1995. Helmets did not become mandatory until the start of the 2003 Giro d’Italia – exactly 2 months after Kivilev died from a crash, while racing without a helmet.
In regards to Casartelli’s death, evidence suggests a helmet would have done nothing to prevent it:
“However, Gerard Porte, the Tour’s senior doctor, claimed that protection was academic since the fatal blow was to an area of Casartelli’s head that would not have been covered by a helmet.”
Nearly a decade passed between the loss of Casartelli and the loss of Kivilev, and only after Kivilev (and immediately after) did the UCI decide to make helmets mandatory.
So, my point was more that the resident know it all on the aforementioned forum was very quick to write a lengthy missive that essentially disseminated false information. When it comes to comparing cycling to triathlon, there is of course no harm done at all to cyclists if a triathlete cites incorrect information on an internet forum populated solely by other triathletes. The problem is that the sport of triathlon is riddled with people who disseminate inaccurate information on all aspects of not only cycling, but the other two disciplines as well. In my own experience, I have found triathletes to have developed their own dogma regarding everything from training programs to swimming technique to cycling equipment choices that in general work directly against the established best practices in the three parent sport disciplines. I understand completely that triathlon is not a ’sport that includes cycling, swimming, and running” but is a sport that “involves performing each event, in succession, in concert with each other and that only by training and performing each successfully and to one’s best ability can one truly say he or she did her best.”
I get that.
What I don’t understand is why triathletes are constantly comparing their own athletic experiences in triathlon to sports that are essentially radically different. And they are very quick to not only compare but to criticize (ie: the question about why we safety pin our numbers and why can’t we have them sublimated on our jerseys given our sizeable team budgets), which simply shows ignorance. It is no different than me sitting down to watch American football and complaining about how they insist on throwing the ball forward to advance play down the field, rather than passing it backward as it is done in rugby. As a former rugby player, I see similarities between it and football, but I know that football is not rugby and thus I would sound like an idiot if I said one of my pet peeves was that football players wear padding and helmets.
The misstatement on the forum about Casartelli’s death being the key event that led to the establishment of the UCI helmet rule is simply an example of how certain well respected triathletes, given just enough knowledge, can be horribly inaccurate and yet well respected and considered authority.
And finally, everyone knows that nothing drives traffic to your website better than controversy.
I’m a triathlete too. From a triathlete perspective, I generally finish in the top 5-10% of the field – and that includes events like Timberman, not just your average little 70-100 person event. On the bike leg, I typically wind up in the top 1-5% of bike splits, so for a triathlete my speed is fairly good. My run splits are also within the top 10%.
Funny things happen when I go to bike races, however: I wind up getting dropped in cat 5 races. Yup, I blow out the back of the suckiest category in bike racing – 60 year old Cat 5 cyclists with half a lung can beat me.
Of course that doesn’t make me feel all that good about my cycling, so at various times I’ve tried entering running races with fairly similar results. In short, I suck at bike racing and I suck at running. And yet I’m a pretty good triathlete.
So obviously cyclists and runners have got something to teach triathletes.
However, I’ve discovered that triathletes in general possess an astounding lack of curiosity with respect to training and execution techniques developed in the individual sports. In fact, I’ll go so far as to say that in general, triathletes are arrogant to a fault. Their time trial positions are almost uniformly awful. Their pedaling cadence is generally abysmal, their mounts and dismounts are laughable and their bike handling is, in a word, scary.
When confronted with this kind of evidence, my general reaction is to go to the experts in the individual disciplines and try to learn from them. Whenever I’ve dealt with professional cyclists, they don’t seem even faintly threatened by triathletes, so I’m not sure where the reference to cyclists feeling threatened comes from.
Strangely enough, though, from what I’ve seen on forums and in general, most triathletes refuse to go to those experts and instead favor triathletes as coaches, basing their decision on the mantra that “triathlon is a different sport and those are just elements of it and their individual techniques don’t apply”. Bullshit.
Anyways, this is just an extremely long-winded way of saying that as a triathlete (and a reasonably good one if I say so myself), I find myself in complete agreement with Kerry. I don’t find what she wrote bullying in the slightest. In fact, I find it incisive, truthful and bitingly funny
.
Peace.
“And finally, everyone knows that nothing drives traffic to your website better than controversy.” Well said Kerry….
I too read the article from the London Times which also goes on to say
But Michel Disteldorf, the French doctor who examined Casartelli’s body on behalf of the coroner in Tarbes, where the rider was flown by helicopter after he crashed while on a fast descent in the Pyrenees, told The Sunday Times that the point of impact was on the top of the skull.
Disteldorf said: “There was a small but very violent impact to the top of the skull a few centimetres to the left of the central axis. Contrary to several reports, there were no facial injuries. The impact caused several fractures within the cranium, causing blood to emerge from the nose, ears and mouth.” Disteldorf added that had Casartelli been wearing a hard helmet “some injuries could have been avoided”.
The facial bleeding initially led Porte to say: “In my opinion, a helmet would not have helped, because it was his face and not his head that was hurt. He later changed his statement, saying: “I do not believe a helmet would have saved him because the blow was to the base of the skull rather than the top of the head.”
Maybe they should have gotten a third opinion.
And yes “helmets did not become mandatory until the start of the 2003 Giro d’Italia – exactly 2 months after Kivilev died from a crash, while racing without a helmet”. But I am suggesting that it may not be that absurd to think while making that decision to make helmets mandatory some mention of Casartelli might have come up in the discussions.
Lastly, Mike I must admit that “threaten” was not the correct word to use in my statement. It has been my experience that “swimmers” are more than willing to help coach me. I tend to be the runner people come to for advise but I have yet to find that cyclist who is willing to give me the time and wisdom of their abilities. When I hear “their time trial positions are almost uniformly awful. Their pedaling cadence is generally abysmal, their mounts and dismounts are laughable and their bike handling is, in a word, scary.”…not the person I want to seek advise from. But I am sure if I look hard enough I will find the right person.
Now if I could only learn how to swim better.
I do appreciate the bit of controversy to get web-hits, always a good idea. However, I think the most fundamental difference between pure cycling and triathlon is acceptance. Yes, cycling has the tour and more money, but I think we can thank Europe for that, cycling around the US you’re lucky to not be run off the road, at the least you’ll be swore at and threatened.
You see, the one single thing I most love about triathlon is that it is inclusive. Go to a race, pretty much any race, and you get all kinds, pros, great amateurs, to people completely out of shape. I admittedly have not been to many cycling races, but I imagine (correct me if I’m wrong) that the same cannot be said. Of course a typical triathlete (lets ignore draft legal as those are basically for the pros) will not do very well at a cycling race; drafting (unless you cheat), team strategy etc. do not come into play in a triathlon. Of course triathletes can learn from cyclists how to perform better, unlike Mike who posted earlier; I haven’t met triathletes who would say otherwise.
Should we really be grouping all triathletes, as is clearly being done in this blog post, as one monolithic group based on postings of a forum? Did you find when doing triathlons that when you told people you were a professional cyclist that you were shunned? I haven’t heard of that happening but believe me the opposite is true. If I did. I guess I would think that cyclists might try triathlons for a year or so, realize maybe they couldn’t hack it, and then quit, but you see I don’t think like that. Basically, the above post is belittling and ridiculing, instead of realizing that the majority of people Kerry is talking about are amateurs. Kerry, you were a school teacher correct? Did you ridicule your students for having incorrect assumptions and asking questions?
Keep the controversial posts coming
The Casartelli tragedy may have been part of the discussion to make a mandatory helmet rule. However, it clearly was not the key event in influencing the mandate as the rule was implemented 8 years after his death and only 2 months after another tragedy. My issue with the statement on the forum was that someone stated that the Casartelli incident was what brought about the decision to mandate helmet use, and this is simply not true. Did it influence indirectly? Perhaps. But when someone states that the death of Fabio Casartelli was what brought the discussion to mandate helmet use “to the fore” it is NOT an accurate statement.
If you take issue with me making fun of the ignorance of triathletes, I can respect your opinion. What I do not understand is your insistence at trying to make some sort of point about my statements about Andrei Kivilev’s death being the event that led to the helmet rule.
As for your experiences with cyclists being unwilling to help you – I am sorry to hear that. I am more than willing to offer advice to triathletes in the area of cycling because I think everyone benefits when triathletes learn to become better bike handlers and more knowledgeable of the sport in general. We all share the same roads and the average motorist cannot tell the difference between a road cyclist and a triathlete. The more we can educate triathletes on how to properly handle their bikes, ride in straight lines, and maneuver road obstacles, the safer it makes it for everyone.
I do not expect every triathlete to become an expert on the nuances of the sport of cycling. I do find it interesting that triathletes are incredibly quick to criticize the sport of cycling while not possessing a terribly deep understanding of it. As Naomi stated earlier here, if you are going to criticize something about our sport, at least go as far as to understand the differences between the sports.
I guess I am somewhat at fault here because I only posted the content of one thread on the triathlon forums. There are countless others that would further illustrate my point of the ongoing absurdity that is the triathletes’ perception and criticism of our sport.
For example, I saw a recent posting by a triathlete who complained that this year’s Tour route was “too easy, not enough climbs and it only comes down to Mt. Ventoux.”
Ask any cyclist who raced Fitchburg this year – the removal of hillier aspects of races does not mean a race has become easy; it simply changes the dynamic of a race.
During last year’s Tour a triathlete posted a complaint about the ability of riders to continue on racing after a crash – specifically that of John Lee Augustyn of Barloworld, who tumbled off the side of a cliff, lost his bike, and was able to use a spare bike in order to finish the stage and start the next day. The person on the forum stated that “that is what he did not like about cycling; they should not be allowed any team support or a spare bike. If you crash you should have to just go home.”
Or from the 2009 Tour of CA, someone stated he “did not see the point of a prologue being so short; there is no point in racing for only a couple of miles.”
When I see statements like that, I see people who clearly have no concept of our sport or why things are done the way they are. I continually see triathletes criticize cycling because it’s not triathlon. Apparently what they do not understand is that it is not triathlon. There are different rules, different objectives. Triathletes cannot seem to comprehend that.
I won’t even go into the thread I saw last year during the Olympics when a bunch of them were criticizing Michael Phelps’ swimming form.
“Did you ridicule your students for having incorrect assumptions and asking questions?”
All the freaking time. In fact, one of my favorite responses was “I am not answering any stupid questions today.”
In all seriousness, as a teacher I would find myself spending time at the beginning of every lesson explaining the objective. I would outline it on the board; I would provide every student with written instructions and we would go over the instructions together. I would then demonstrate what they should be doing either by doing one example problem with them or the first step of the lab or whatever. I would show them all of the supplies they needed to perform the lesson or lab experiment. I would then let them loose to begin work on their assignment, and inevitably I would be met with a group of students who eagerly jumped up, ran to the lab tables in the back of the room, and then raised their hands to ask “Wait….what are we doing?”
So forgive me if your teaching analogy is lost on me. If a student asked me to explain the difference between ionic and covalent bonding because he was confused, I had no problem answering that question. If, however, a student asked me “why can’t we just have lunch all 7 periods of the day, why do we have to take classes like math, English, and science?” I would generally regard himm with disdain.
My point is not that each and every triathlete is a veritable idiot. (to illustrate that let me make it clear that my fiance is a triathlete – not a bike racer. He has no interest in ever becoming a competitive cyclist- and he is the smartest person I have ever met.)
My point is that the triathletes who populate internet forums (and there are a goodly number who do so; they apparently have jobs that require very little effort or they have a lot of free time to surf the net all day) are in general not very aware of the sport of cycling and are very quick to live their lives out on those forums, spewing derisive rhetoric about the sport of cycling (and swimming and running to an extent) and disseminating inaccurate information.
I have quite a few friends who are triathletes. In fact, it was only at the suggestion of my friend John Hirsch that I spent a season competing in triathlons. The sport is very inclusive and is one of the rare events where all levels compete relatively close to each other. However, prior to competing in the sport, I never criticized it. I viewed triathletes with the same respect that I hold for any athlete in any sport (with the exception of baseball). After spending a season in the tri scene, I developed my opinions of triathletes and their sport based on my own experiences. Many of the people I encountered at races were genuine, friendly, nice people. Most of the people I see posting on forums are the opposite. And, the very nice people I met at races demonstrated very elementary knowledge of cycling and it’s requisite skillset.
My point about Fabio Casartelli and Andrei Kivilev is that there are ways to educate people and in my opinion, ridiculing them is not a very effective approach. To be honest, I never heard of either cyclist before so I was excited to learn something new.
What bothers me most is the generalization about triathletes
“I do find it interesting that triathletes are incredibly quick to criticize the sport of cycling while not possessing a terribly deep understanding of it”
“I continually see triathletes criticize cycling because it’s not triathlon.”
“…when a bunch of them were criticizing Michael Phelps’ swimming form.”
I would hate to think I am the exception to the rule, but I not one of those triathletes you talk about. So if our paths do cross some day I will ask you about some bike racing strategies. And if I run across Michael Phelps I apparently should think twice about asking him for advise. You don’t coach swimming do you?
Also troubling is the fact that trigeek57 had to use “57″ in his or her name…that means there might be 56 more of them out there.
we’ve got a team mate who started off as a tri-geek, he thought he’d go to a Time Trial for cyclists to practice for the bike leg. he was a very good Tri-geek, had the confidence of being one of the fastest bike riders in the Tris he entered… he got smoked. destroyed.
in a time trial. by a bunch of cyclists…
since then he decided he wanted to learn how to ride… and he’s gotten a lot faster, and not much slower in his run and swim… and now he’s one of the faster TT guys around.
most of my impression of Tri-geeks is from watching races and observing them “training” on the bike. Like big parachutes on wicked high aero bars, knees splayed out while pedaling, shoulders rocking back and forth pushing a 58 tooth aero chain ring going 22 mph at 50 rpms…
Oh and I’ve yet to find anything of significance to support Kerry is wrong… she’s one of the best fact checking people out there… don’t mess with the little one
oh and incorrect assumptions in a classroom and internet are very different – esp when these incorrect assumptions are presented as hard core fact from a “guru KIA” type blabber mouth.
anyway – i’m just adding stink to the discussion – but i’m not feeling motivated to generate any content on my thing and this seems to be a good distraction while watching the tour and actually working
I’ll chime in here too. I’m with Kerry on this one. There are a lot of triathletes out there with very strong opinions and very closed minds. I’m a triathlete, but have raced bikes in the past. The big difference I see between the sports of triathlon and cycling is you only have to complete one triathlon (once in your life) to be considered a “triathlete”, but I don’t know any bike racers that only race once a year. The fact that triathlon is more accessible for most folks than bike races is a great thing. But when you broaden the population of a sport by inviting EVERYONE, you distill the knowledge and skills.
I’m going to go for a ride now, with my helmet on backwards, aero-bars higher than my saddle, and 7 water bottles and 15 gels taped to my 16 pound, $4000 bike
(oh, and I’ll probably wear my compression socks too)
I love it when a post abut the absurdity of ‘experts’ elicits an ironic following debate.
I have threatened to show up to our weekly worlds TT on my Mountain Bike, I think I will borrow a male Tri Bra top to do it in.
Brilliant Post Kerry.
Saying the trolls on slowtwitch don’t know anything about road cycling isn’t saying much. Those same people don’t know much about tri. And omg, when they talk about the Iraq war, its worse than fox.
That said, does anyone in any forum know anything about anything? I mean if you knew something you would know enough not to post in a forum.
I mean really, I bet we could find some water polo forum and see how they don’t know anything about water polo and less about swimming and I bet swimmers hate them and I bet they have their own Kerry Litka of swimming who is blogging about the water polo players don’t know anything about swimming.. Or a NASCAR forum and hear about how they don’t know anything about stock cars and are WAY off with F1.
I wanna meet the Kerry Litka of NASCAR btw. You, minus a few teeth, plus a few beers with each meal, plus a few bad tattoos and maybe swinging on people and knocking them in the face and starting brawls. Kinda dreamy now that I think of it. Anyone got NASCAR tickets for sale I think I need to go find me-self a common law wife.
John Hirsch wrote:
“You, minus a few teeth, plus a few beers with each meal, plus a few bad tattoos and maybe swinging on people and knocking them in the face and starting brawls.”
aside from the tattoos and teeth I think you pretty much pegged her, john